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scoring errors on running record Messages in this topic - RSS

User 697085
User 697085
Posts: 1


6/23/2016
User 697085
User 697085
Posts: 1
If the student sounds out a word correctly but does not say the word after is it an error? for example v-ol-un-te-er and then does not say volunteer after sounding it out and continues to read.
Also for reversals - Mrs. Gonsalez said " said Mrs.Gonzalez" - 1 error or 2?
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 542


7/10/2016
Sounding out a word must be followed by the child saying the correct word. Only then can it be counted as a correct response. If the student reads 'said Mom' for 'Mom said'.... it counts as 2 errors.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Traceydon
Traceydon
Posts: 1


2/17/2017
Traceydon
Traceydon
Posts: 1
When a child sounds out a word but does not put the sounds together to say a word, how is it coded in the MSV section? Do we say they used visual but not meaning and structure?
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Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 366


2/21/2017
Traceydon wrote:
When a child sounds out a word but does not put the sounds together to say a word, how is it coded in the MSV section? Do we say they used visual but not meaning and structure?

Yes, when the child only uses the letter-sound relationship to attempt a word it is using V and neglecting to use M and S to confirm the word. If a child does that a lot it means they are learning a bad habit that can be fixed if caught early. It is a good reflection of the way you might be teaching, or how the child is hearing what you are saying. We sometimes neglect to do what appears obvious but some children don't make that link without a direct model. Good noticing on your part. Keep up the analysis!
Debbie
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FPUser39984
FPUser39984
Posts: 1


5/30/2017
FPUser39984
FPUser39984
Posts: 1
When a student reads inflected endings incorrectly...such as walktid for walked, is that counted as a substitution? Especially if the student reads all -ed endings the same way?
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Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 366


5/31/2017
FPUser39984 wrote:
When a student reads inflected endings incorrectly...such as walktid for walked, is that counted as a substitution? Especially if the student reads all -ed endings the same way?

These are typical overgeneralizations for children just learning about irregular verbs in the English language. They are counted as errors but make notes of the pattern of these errors that provide evidence of teaching that is needed. These are the types of errors that "Looking Beyond the Numbers" section of the Assessment Guide refer to when making placement and teaching decisions. We have to stop thinking of the Reading Records as only numerical scores. The value of the evidence in the analysis is the critical part of the assessment tool. Thank you for this question and for continuing to search for the best use of the assessment.
Debbie
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Euromemi
Euromemi
Posts: 1


6/12/2017
Euromemi
Euromemi
Posts: 1
Benchmark Assessment 2, Level Q, A Secret Home - The word arachnophobia has a pronunciation guide in parenthesis after the word. If the student does not use the pronunciation guide (uh RAK nuh FOE bee uh) is it counted as an error?
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Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 366


6/12/2017
Euromemi wrote:
Benchmark Assessment 2, Level Q, A Secret Home - The word arachnophobia has a pronunciation guide in parenthesis after the word. If the student does not use the pronunciation guide (uh RAK nuh FOE bee uh) is it counted as an error?


Do you mean if the student doesn't read the word twice one is an error, no. The pronunciation guide does not count as a word in the tally of running words for accurate word reading. If the student reads the word without the guide that is fine.
One way to be sure is to count the words.

Debbie
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FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5


2/8/2018
FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5
If a child reads a number incorrectly, is that counted as 1 error? For example, the student read "20" when the number was "200".
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 542


2/8/2018
User 442191 wrote:
If a child consistently reads the word "cafe" for calf, and the word appears six times in the text, how many errors should be counted?


You will need to count 1 error every time there is a substitution given for the word in text. That means you will count six errors. The concern is that the child is not self monitoring and perhaps not reading for meaning. The only time multiple substitutions on one word throughout a text are counted as only 1 error is in the case of proper nouns. For example if the child says Jesse for James throughout the text, it is counted as an error the first time and thereafter recorded, but not counted.

I hope this helps.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Cathy8
Cathy8
Posts: 1


2/14/2018
Cathy8
Cathy8
Posts: 1
I have a question about running records. If the word is car and the student says c-/ca-/van is this a self-correct or a check? They start out sounding it out, but then say a word at the end. So do I look at the first thing that they say or the last to decide if it is a SC or a check?
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 542


2/15/2018
Ms. S. wrote:
User 442191 wrote:
If a child consistently reads the word "cafe" for calf, and the word appears six times in the text, how many errors should be counted?


I have this question as well. I don't think this means multiple substitutions for a single word in the next, though. If a child misreads a proper noun each time it appears in the text, that is counted as only one error. But, what if a child cannot accurately read a specific content-area word in a nonfiction Benchmark book (such as calf, or seismograph) and each time the word appears, the child makes a substitution (that happens to be an incorrect attempt to sound it out, like the example the previous poster gave)? If the child makes this substitution each time the word appears, is each word counted as an error (and therefore different from proper nouns)? What if the word is not even in the child's vocabulary? Sometimes that makes the difference in accuracy between instructional level and frustration. Thank you for clarifying this!


Mis-reading of a proper noun (several times in the same text) is, as you stated, is only counted / scored as one error. All other words are counted as an error each time they are mis-read and not corrected, even if it is not a part of that reader’s vocabulary. Please see the section titled “Looking Beyond the Numbers” in the Assessment Guide, page 46, 3rd Edition.

It begins with this statement, “You can draw on all of these sources of information to help you look beyond the numbers to make a decision about a student’s recommended placement level. Look again at the accuracy and comprehension scores. The recommended placement level may be the same as the instructional level, but it may differ because of other factors that come out of your analysis and the practicalities of managing instruction.

The errors are coded and scored the same for all readers, including English language learners. However, the analysis should guide the appropriate placement decision by looking beyond the numbers to consider the thinking that was done in reading compared to the expectations along The Fountas & Pinnell Literacy Continuum, not just the errors made because of language development.”

I believe this section (Looking Beyond the Numbers) in the Assessment Guide, will help direct thinking about the next steps for instruction. All assessments are scored the same. The bottom line is not always the score, but is the reader understanding the meaning of the text. This error (mis-pronunciation of seismograph) is made without understanding the use of the pronunciation key provided in the text (despite the fact that this word is not in the child’s vocabulary. We need to look at the reading as a whole and compare the strategies used with the strategic actions (including the comprehension) as listed in the Literacy Continuum for that level. Using that information, you may decide on another placement level, but the instructional level score will remain the same.

We wish you success as you determine the best level for placement and the appropriate strategic action behaviors for instruction.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 542


2/15/2018
Cathy8 wrote:
I have a question about running records. If the word is car and the student says c-/ca-/van is this a self-correct or a check? They start out sounding it out, but then say a word at the end. So do I look at the first thing that they say or the last to decide if it is a SC or a check?


If the child ‘finishes an attempt’ with a complete word that is different from the word in text, even though they started correctly (c-ca-van), we record their attempts at using appropriate beginning sounds, but score it as an error because the final word said is a substitution of ‘van’ for ‘car’. In this case, the child was attempting to make meaning (Yay!) but did not do a final check to self monitor their attempt.

We can celebrate that this child is ‘on the way’ to using appropriate strategies, but needs to go just a bit further!

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Love2Learn
Love2Learn
Posts: 1


2/24/2018
Love2Learn
Love2Learn
Posts: 1
Sometimes words like mom or mother are used as proper nouns in running records and sometimes they're used as common nouns. Do we score substitution errors differently based on how they are used in the context of the text we are assessing? Thanks.
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 542


2/24/2018
Love2Learn wrote:
Sometimes words like mom or mother are used as proper nouns in running records and sometimes they're used as common nouns. Do we score substitution errors differently based on how they are used in the context of the text we are assessing? Thanks.


Yes, you will score the errors based on how the word is used. If ‘Rabbit’ for example is used as the character’s name, and the child substituted ‘Bunny’ throughout the text, it would be scored as you would score a proper noun... 1 error. When analyzing the error, we would be alerted to what instruction needs to follow. The score would not be the indicator, in this case, of what needs to happen during future lessons. We would need to reinforce the meaning and structure being used, but begin to alert the child to the giving attention to visual cues.

I hope this helps.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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wljohnson
wljohnson
Posts: 1


3/6/2018
wljohnson
wljohnson
Posts: 1
If a student read is reading a sentence and and says "said Meg" instead of "Meg said," is an error and what category does it fall under?
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FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5


3/6/2018
FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5
Any thoughts on this Helenann? Debbie?

FPUser29392 wrote:
If a child reads a number incorrectly, is that counted as 1 error? For example, the student read "20" when the number was "200".
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Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 366


3/6/2018
FPUser29392 wrote:
Any thoughts on this Helenann? Debbie?

FPUser29392 wrote:
If a child reads a number incorrectly, is that counted as 1 error? For example, the student read "20" when the number was "200".



I think it depends on the level. For BAS I counted the words for the RW and found that the number was included in the word count so a misread number is an error. The numbers are symbols for the meaningful word thus are counted as errors.

Debbie
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Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Debbie Magoulick, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 366


3/6/2018
wljohnson wrote:
If a student read is reading a sentence and and says "said Meg" instead of "Meg said," is an error and what category does it fall under?



I know you want to analyze the phrase rather than individual words because you know what the child is doing- inverting the words in the common phrase. It signals reading fluently using MS but neglecting V details. Meg/said said/Meg - each one is using M and S neglecting V. The child's sense of language structure superseded the visual information. (There is a similar example with Jerome in WRS on p. 64 -Level D.)

Best wishes for success!
Debbie
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FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5


3/7/2018
FPUser29392
FPUser29392
Posts: 5
Thank you!!

FPUser29392 wrote:
If a child reads a number incorrectly, is that counted as 1 error? For example, the student read "20" when the number was "200".



I think it depends on the level. For BAS I counted the words for the RW and found that the number was included in the word count so a misread number is an error. The numbers are symbols for the meaningful word thus are counted as errors.

Debbie
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