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4 days ago
Topic:
How soon?

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
A88 wrote:
In the lower level books many high frequency words are repeated throughout the text. How soon should I provide a student with a word when they are balking or appealing to the teacher to tell them a given word that is on every page of the level A, B, C, D text? \

I feel as if the student balks or appeals to the teacher on the first page because they cannot read the word "like" and the word is told to them an counted as an error the assessment will be invalid because they will then correctly read the word "like" on the other 8 pages and there are only 28 words in a story.

I struggle to remember the "rule" for this situation.


Part of a formative assessment is determining what the child can do on their own and what they need help with. If the child stops at a word, you can silently count about three seconds then say, “You try it” and give a small wait to see if there is a response. The wait time is important because it allows us to see if the child can independently search and then provide a response on their own. Whether the response is correct or not, it provides us with additional information. If they do not respond, give the word.

When a text has very few words on a page and you are telling the same word on every page, the text will probably end up being ‘hard’. This tells you that the child is not reading for meaning, using structure to inform their reading or using visual cues to attempt to process the text. The child is also not assimilating the information provided. (Another good piece of information for future instruction.)

If the reader is told the word and then applies that information to future pages, you have an indication of how readily the child assimilates new information. You are seeing that this reader is able to apply new information to the processor this level. We want to find the level at which the child will be able to process text with just a bit of support. This is typically the instructional level.

Your goal is to find the independent, instructional and hard levels of text and then use the processing information for placement.

I hope this helps,
4 days ago
Topic:
Scoring Summarizing

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
Jillarton wrote:
Could you explain the scoring implications of a student (for example in Levels E-K in Fiction) not using specific language to communicate (most/ many/ few) important events in the story, including the problem, solution, and characters. For example, saying "the dog" and "the boy" instead of "Wags" and "Nick". I understand that "characters" is only part of the summary, but all things being equal in the student's response about the problem and solution, could we still consider them proficient or approaching proficiency?



At levels E-K, ‘the boy’ and ‘the dog’ changes the scoring from proficient to approaching proficiency. We want children to learn to use the academic language to describe the text. When a text contains only two characters, we ‘understand’ what the child is referring to, however, we need to learn early on that we must use character names. Fountas and Pinnell state that for us to score it, the child must say it. So, when that situation occurs (and all other things are equal) we would score this as approaching proficiency because the reader has given many of the important facts. When there are more characters added, the scoring becomes more complicated. We might have to drop the score accordingly.

I hope this helps.
5 days ago
Topic:
How soon?

A88
A88
Posts: 1
A88
A88
Posts: 1
Topic: How soon?
In the lower level books many high frequency words are repeated throughout the text. How soon should I provide a student with a word when they are balking or appealing to the teacher to tell them a given word that is on every page of the level A, B, C, D text? \

I feel as if the student balks or appeals to the teacher on the first page because they cannot read the word "like" and the word is told to them an counted as an error the assessment will be invalid because they will then correctly read the word "like" on the other 8 pages and there are only 28 words in a story.

I struggle to remember the "rule" for this situation.
5 days ago
Topic:
Scoring Summarizing

Jillarton
Jillarton
Posts: 5
Could you explain the scoring implications of a student (for example in Levels E-K in Fiction) not using specific language to communicate (most/ many/ few) important events in the story, including the problem, solution, and characters. For example, saying "the dog" and "the boy" instead of "Wags" and "Nick". I understand that "characters" is only part of the summary, but all things being equal in the student's response about the problem and solution, could we still consider them proficient or approaching proficiency?
5 days ago
Topic:
Students who substitute with nonsense words

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
Bella'sMom wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering how to code a substitution when the word read by the child is a nonsense word. For example, a student recently read the word "nibbing" instead of reading "nibbling." I know to circle V as it was a close visual match. Would I also circle S since the word she made up ended with "ing" and matched the part of speech of the actual word in the book?

Thank you for your help!
edited by Bella'sMom on 6/13/2018


In Guided Reading Responsive Teaching Across the Grades, Fountas and Pinnell state: “The value of this activity [analysis for Meaning, Structure and Visual information sources] is to look for patterns in the reader’s responses. You should not spend endless time trying to figure out each error, searching for the “right” analysis. The idea is to reflect carefully on the reader’s attempt, make your best hypothesis, and then look at data through the whole reading and over time to identify patterns of responding. You will get a good sense of the reader’s use of information, and an indication of the kinds of strategic actions the reader is using.” So considering this response, I would encourage you, when in doubt, to look at this, plus some of the other errors for a pattern.

To answer your question.... [When considering if the reader used structure] “In English you are asking if the attempt is an acceptable English structure or if the structure of the sentence influences the response. Using this implicit knowledge, the reader checks whether the sentence “sounds right.” [up to and including the error]. In this case, since the word is a nonsense word, we would have to say that the child was relying totally on visual to attempt the word. The attempt does not sound right in English.

Analysis is what informs instruction and gets results!
5 days ago
Topic:
Students who substitute with nonsense words

Bella'sMom
Bella'sMom
Posts: 1
Hi,
I'm wondering how to code a substitution when the word read by the child is a nonsense word. For example, a student recently read the word "nibbing" instead of reading "nibbling." I know to circle V as it was a close visual match. Would I also circle S since the word she made up ended with "ing" and matched the part of speech of the actual word in the book?

Thank you for your help!
edited by Bella'sMom on 6/13/2018
5 days ago
Topic:
PSW set up questions

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
Sue R. wrote:
We have been in the process of unpacking our sets (first grade) and are wondering if you have suggestions for storing all the cards that come with the ready resources and online resources. They do not all fit within the folders and the original box. Also, there is a package of cards in the first grade kit that we can’t seem to figure out how/where they fit within the lessons in the book. They have days of the week, numerals, etc. Unlike other cards, they do not identify which lesson in which to use them. Thanks!


You might try this blog Unpacking the Phonics, Spelling, and Word Study System to give you more direction: http://www.fountasandpinnell.com/resourcelibrary/resource?id=391

This is a great blog and believe it will help clarify the materials. Some teachers put the general materials in large manilla envelops, labeled and stored in file cabinets. As you become more familiar with the lessons, you will gage the best location for them. I.e. you may find some materials/resources need to be in ‘bins’ right next to your instruction area. Some will be kept in the file for later use.

I hope this helps. We wish you success with the new PSW system.
5 days ago
Topic:
Replacing old or missing BAS books

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
mhuber26 wrote:
Hello,

My district recently purchased the conversion kit for Edition #3. We have a few books that were not part of the conversion pack that we would like to update. Are we able to purchase a few individual books (i.e. Plenty of Pets- Level P)?


Benchmark Books are not sold separately. The conversion kits are not a part of the regular catalog and can only be purchased through your local sales team. Therefore, you need to contact your local sales rep for more information.

Best wishes,
5 days ago
Topic:
Read Aloud - To Show or Not Show the Book

FPUser81743
FPUser81743
Posts: 1
ed
6 days ago
Topic:
Printing each lesson

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
Kelli Bridwell wrote:
I am waning to include a copy of each lesson in each folder but can’t find a place to print them online. I really don’t want to tear the pages out of my book. Suggestions on where I can find a digital copy?


Lessons are located in the Lesson Guide for LLI. Some FPL lessons are located in the Online Resources.

We wish you success as you use the system.
edited by Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant on 6/13/2018
edited by Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant on 6/13/2018
6 days ago
Topic:
PSW set up questions

Sue R.
Sue R.
Posts: 3
Sue R.
Sue R.
Posts: 3
Topic: PSW set up questions
We have been in the process of unpacking our sets (first grade) and are wondering if you have suggestions for storing all the cards that come with the ready resources and online resources. They do not all fit within the folders and the original box. Also, there is a package of cards in the first grade kit that we can’t seem to figure out how/where they fit within the lessons in the book. They have days of the week, numerals, etc. Unlike other cards, they do not identify which lesson in which to use them. Thanks!
6 days ago
Topic:
Replacing old or missing BAS books

mhuber26
mhuber26
Posts: 1
Hello,

My district recently purchased the conversion kit for Edition #3. We have a few books that were not part of the conversion pack that we would like to update. Are we able to purchase a few individual books (i.e. Plenty of Pets- Level P)?
6 days ago
Topic:
Printing each lesson

Kelli Bridwell
Kelli Bridwell
Posts: 1
I am waning to include a copy of each lesson in each folder but can’t find a place to print them online. I really don’t want to tear the pages out of my book. Suggestions on where I can find a digital copy?
10 days ago
Topic:
Retesting at the previous level

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
EBH Elementary wrote:
If a student does not move up a level, can you assume that they are still instructional at the previous level or not? There is disagreement at our school so I'd like another opinion on this. For example, a student was a level N in March, but when I test them in June, they don't pass an O. Can I just leave their level at N or do I have to go back and retest them at level N in June even though they passed it previously?


You want to determine the student’s instructional level at the end of the year. So, if the child was assessed in January, for example and was instructional at a level N, but did not progress to level O when retested in June, you need to check if Level N is still instructional or is it now independent? You are trying to determine what progress was made during either this semester or this quarter of instruction.

On page 36 of the Assessment Guide, if the score indicates that the level is hard: “Move to a lower level text and repeat the same process until the student reads a text at an instructional level.”

Once you administer the Level N (of the opposite genre than what was read previously since this must be a cold read) compare the strategies used this time to the strategies used on the last Level N. This will determine what progress was made in reading processing behaviors. You can use Section 3 of the Assessment Guide: Recommended Placement and Looking Beyond the Numbers along with the Literacy Continuum to guide your analysis and help determine what next steps need to be taken. This is critical to getting change and should add revelation to why this child did not progress to the next level over the last half or quarter of instruction.

This will create another problem in the fall, however. Both Level N books have been read and there are no other Level N books for assessment. As a staff, the question needs to be asked: “What caused the lack of progress and how can this situation be prevented in the future?”

We wish you success as you assess your students.
10 days ago
Topic:
Using the book for Within the Text question

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
LovetoTeach12 wrote:
Hi,
I had a student read a Level L today and she asked to use the book to retell the story because "I can't remember". She flipped through the pages and was able to talk about the story. How should this be scored? Should I just note that she used the book and score a 3 since she obviously got all of the information correct, or score a 2 since it was done with support and she showed partial understanding without the book?


On page 30 of the Benchmark Assessment Guide it states: “Allow the student to look back in the text if she initiates it. If the student starts to read the book again, stop her by saying, “Can you talk about that in your own words?”” Therefore, because the child talked about it in her own words, while using the pictures as support and was able to give all the key understandings, the score would be a 3.

Best wishes as you continue to assess your students with fidelity,
10 days ago
Topic:
Retesting at the previous level

EBH Elementary
EBH Elementary
Posts: 1
If a student does not move up a level, can you assume that they are still instructional at the previous level or not? There is disagreement at our school so I'd like another opinion on this. For example, a student was a level N in March, but when I test them in June, they don't pass an O. Can I just leave their level at N or do I have to go back and retest them at level N in June even though they passed it previously?
10 days ago
Topic:
Using the book for Within the Text question

LovetoTeach12
LovetoTeach12
Posts: 4
Hi,
I had a student read a Level L today and she asked to use the book to retell the story because "I can't remember". She flipped through the pages and was able to talk about the story. How should this be scored? Should I just note that she used the book and score a 3 since she obviously got all of the information correct, or score a 2 since it was done with support and she showed partial understanding without the book?
10 days ago
Topic:
BAS Level L: Dog Stories

LovetoTeach12
LovetoTeach12
Posts: 4
Thank you for your response! :)

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant wrote:
LovetoTeach12 wrote:
Hi, I'm torn on how to score the Within text for Dog Stories. This is the student's answer: "There was a little girl. She read books about an author. She wrote a letter to the author to have the author write about her dog. Seven days later a letter came and she said "No, because she doesn't know the dog very well." She said she's writing a book about sled dogs. Then her and her brother went to the computer and got another letter.

Having worked with this student all year and knowing that comprehension is a struggle, I asked her follow up questions: What is the little girl's name? "July? Julia?" and What is the author's name? "I forget"

I feel that the score for the Within the text should be a 2 Partial understanding since she's missing a lot of the basic information (character's names and then confusing what April and her brother did at the end of the story.

Can anyone give feedback === on the right track or scoring too hard? (I know myself well and know that I can score hard on the comprehension.)


You are absolutely on the right track. The child has listed many of the key understandings, but there was important information missing from her conversation (such as character names, that she was reading to her dog and that she began to write her own story) and some mis-information provided. I believe a 2 would be an accurate score. Fountas and Pinnell state that we must score with rigor, for only then will it inform our next steps to instruction. Our goal is to determine the best placement level to support instruction. One caveat I might add, from the Assessment Guide: When the student has indicated some knowledge of an answer but uses only one or two words in a superficial way, you can say: “Say more about that.” Or, “talk more about that.” But use these only once.
Each of these prompts are open ended and do not lead the student to the missing information. We can not ask questions that direct or lead the student to an answer.
I think you nailed it as a score of 2. The child has definitely included important information but neglected a couple key understandings.
10 days ago
Topic:
Level-N+ Spanish Benchmark Kits?

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
Owen wrote:
This has not been asked here for 6 years, that I could see...

Are there plans to extend the Spanish language benchmark assessments beyond level-N? We are a dual language elementary school and the 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades need this consistency of assessment as the students grow in their Spanish acquisition.


Although the need for extending SEL is recognized, we are not aware of any current work in this area. The only thing that I know of, that is available in the educational market for evaluating 3rd-6th grade is the EDL which is the counterpart of the DRA. Although it doesn’t treat comprehension as SEL does, until SEL goes 3rd to 6th, that is the only thing I know of - that has been researched as far as levels are considered for guided reading.

Thank you for your inquiry. I will be sure to mention the need for it.
11 days ago
Topic:
Data Online Management

Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 537
mrsmed1 wrote:
We have purchased the individual licsence to use the BAS system but the message keeps telling me we need to purchase a classroom liscense. We currently have a f & P BAS Level 1 & 2 and are looking to do our kids running records online. Can someone advise what we should be purchasing as special education teachers to do progress monitoring of our students reading levels for a middle school 6-8 but have kids reading from 1-8. Thanks,


Here is a link to the Quick Start guide for ODMS. https://fpodms.helpdocsonline.com/home It includes the tech support email and phone number. I believe they can better answer your question. You have one free year to use the ODMS with the purchase of a BAS system.

I hope this helps.




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