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F&P Applicability to foreign language learning Messages in this topic - RSS

Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4


23 days ago
Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4
Hi guys, new here and very interested in the F&P. I am very curious to get a deeper understanding of F&P and specifically if it applies to second language learning, assuming students had access to appropriate reading materials. I have been unable to find much information about it online so I thought I would ask here.

Specifically, it seems that F&P was designed primarily with English L1 learners in mind, but I wanted to know if there is any research or experience with applying the concepts and methods to L2 (second language) learners, specifically Chinese. It seems like there is decades of research behind F&P and a wealth of information that people have here, if anyone can point me in the right direction or shed some light on this area, please let me know. Thanks!
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 702


23 days ago
Jared T wrote:
Hi guys, new here and very interested in the F&P. I am very curious to get a deeper understanding of F&P and specifically if it applies to second language learning, assuming students had access to appropriate reading materials. I have been unable to find much information about it online so I thought I would ask here.

Specifically, it seems that F&P was designed primarily with English L1 learners in mind, but I wanted to know if there is any research or experience with applying the concepts and methods to L2 (second language) learners, specifically Chinese. It seems like there is decades of research behind F&P and a wealth of information that people have here, if anyone can point me in the right direction or shed some light on this area, please let me know. Thanks!


Please refer to the Efficacy Studies conducted and linked here regarding the progress made by English Language Learners in LLI: http://www.fountasandpinnell.com/research/

The LLI Efficacy Study 2009-2010–rural and suburban schools reports: Across the three grade levels, the studies found that LLI positively impacts K-2 student literacy achievement in rural and suburban settings. Further, we determined that LLI is effective with ELL students, students with a special education designation, and minority students in both rural and suburban settings.

The following is an excerpt from the LLI System Guide: “Each lesson in the LLI System provides specific suggestions for supporting English language learners who are selected for the program (also see When Readers Struggle: Teaching That Works). You will want to use your district criteria for language proficiency to determine eligibility for reading instruction in English. English language learners will benefit greatly from conversation with an adult and interaction with a very small group of children. They will also benefit from reading the large amount of continuous text provided in LLI. Through reading, talking, and writing about reading, they extend their knowledge of the structure of English and expand their vocabulary. The LLI lesson is ideal for these children because of the opportunities for increased language modeling. Oral language surrounds every element of the lesson. In addition, the group size and instructional approaches allow for decision making based on the specific strengths and needs of the children.

If children can not follow your instructions or participate fully in the activities of the group, you may want to give them whatever language support your district offers before placing them in an LLI group. The LLI System provides lesson-specific suggestions for supporting English language learners who are selected for the program. In addition, you can keep some general suggestions in mind as you work across lessons. In the LLI System Guide, we list suggestions in four categories: oral language, reading, writing, and phonics. These ideas will be helpful as you work with English learners as well as with other children who can benefit from extra support. You will also find specific suggestions in every lesson and a comprehensive chapter in When Readers Struggle: Teaching That Works.”

Thank you for your question.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4


23 days ago
Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4
Thanks for that, but it doesn't address my question regarding the applicability of F&P to foreign language learning, specifically Chinese. Is there any research or case studies in this area? Thanks!
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 702


22 days ago
Jared T wrote:
Thanks for that, but it doesn't address my question regarding the applicability of F&P to foreign language learning, specifically Chinese. Is there any research or case studies in this area? Thanks!


Fountas and Pinnell have several products. The products include assessment, intervention and classroom instruction materials. The research listed in the previous post includes English Language Learners. The research does not indicate the specific languages included.

I hope this more directly answers your question.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4


21 days ago
Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4
Thanks for the response, but no this does not answer my question. I am looking for any research or experience where the F&P method has specifically been applied to NON-English education. I understand that you have assessments, intervention, and other instructional materials, but I want to know if there is specifically any research on how these apply to learning a second language that is NOT English, specifically any Asian languages like Chinese or Japanese.

I see that you have materials in Spanish, but do these relate to learning Spanish as a 1st language or learning Spanish as a 2nd language?

So really I want to know if the F&P concepts have been research and applied to learning a 2nd language. Based on the indirect response, I am going to assume that there is no research supporting the application of F&P to second language acquisition and instead the framework is intended solely for English education as a 1st language. If I am wrong, please correct my conclusion. Thanks!
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 702


21 days ago
Jared T wrote:
Thanks for the response, but no this does not answer my question. I am looking for any research or experience where the F&P method has specifically been applied to NON-English education. I understand that you have assessments, intervention, and other instructional materials, but I want to know if there is specifically any research on how these apply to learning a second language that is NOT English, specifically any Asian languages like Chinese or Japanese.

I see that you have materials in Spanish, but do these relate to learning Spanish as a 1st language or learning Spanish as a 2nd language?

So really I want to know if the F&P concepts have been research and applied to learning a 2nd language. Based on the indirect response, I am going to assume that there is no research supporting the application of F&P to second language acquisition and instead the framework is intended solely for English education as a 1st language. If I am wrong, please correct my conclusion. Thanks!


Hi Jared,
The SEL materials are intended to support teachers as they teach children to read, who either have Spanish as their 1st language or who are learning Spanish as their 2nd language. “Sistema de evaluación de la lectura provides teachers with precise tools and texts to observe and quantify specific reading behaviors, and then interpret and use that data to plan meaningful instruction. The materials are used to determine students' developmental Spanish reading levels for the purpose of informing instruction and documenting reading progress. Once the assessment is completed, teachers use the NEW Continuo de la lectoescritura: Instrumento para la evaluación, planificación y enseñanza, Expanded Edition for Grados PreK-2” to determine the strategic action behaviors needed by each child (who either uses Spanish as a 1st language or is learning Spanish as a 2nd language) to become a more proficient reader. The research provided concerns the accuracy of the assessment: i.e. how valid the reading scores are and how accurately they are in identifying each student's reading level in Spanish. The primary goal of the assessment and following instruction is teaching efficient and effective reading process strategies using Spanish. The SEL Efficacy Studies are provided here: https://www.fountasandpinnell.com/research/

We have no similar materials for Asian languages.
Please let me know if you need further information.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 702


21 days ago
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant wrote:
Jared T wrote:
Thanks for the response, but no this does not answer my question. I am looking for any research or experience where the F&P method has specifically been applied to NON-English education. I understand that you have assessments, intervention, and other instructional materials, but I want to know if there is specifically any research on how these apply to learning a second language that is NOT English, specifically any Asian languages like Chinese or Japanese.

I see that you have materials in Spanish, but do these relate to learning Spanish as a 1st language or learning Spanish as a 2nd language?

So really I want to know if the F&P concepts have been research and applied to learning a 2nd language. Based on the indirect response, I am going to assume that there is no research supporting the application of F&P to second language acquisition and instead the framework is intended solely for English education as a 1st language. If I am wrong, please correct my conclusion. Thanks!


Hi Jared,
The SEL materials are intended to support teachers as they teach children to read, who either have Spanish as their 1st language or who are learning Spanish as their 2nd language. “Sistema de evaluación de la lectura provides teachers with precise tools and texts to observe and quantify specific reading behaviors, and then interpret and use that data to plan meaningful instruction. The materials are used to determine students' developmental Spanish reading levels for the purpose of informing instruction and documenting reading progress. Once the assessment is completed, teachers use the NEW Continuo de la lectoescritura: Instrumento para la evaluación, planificación y enseñanza, Expanded Edition for Grados PreK-2” to determine the strategic action behaviors needed by each child (who either uses Spanish as a 1st language or is learning Spanish as a 2nd language) to become a more proficient reader. The research provided concerns the accuracy of the assessment: i.e. how valid the reading scores are and how accurately they are in identifying each student's reading level in Spanish. The primary goal of the assessment and following instruction is teaching efficient and effective reading process strategies using Spanish. The SEL Efficacy Studies are provided here: https://www.fountasandpinnell.com/research/

We have no similar materials for Asian languages.
Please let me know if you need further information.


A respected colleague and fellow consultant, Debbie Magoulick, has added this insight: if you are asking whether the responsive teaching would work in teaching any language, I think the thinking and processing to understand written text is the same in any language. The differences would be in the early literacy concepts that depend on directional movement since some written text goes in different directions or word boundaries since some languages write in characters that represent ideas rather than words alone, or symbol-sound correspondence that differs. But the searching, monitoring, solving, correcting, predicting, ... should still be the thinking or processing done in any language. Marie Clay studied processing around the world to develop her theory of reading as a complex process.”

Thank you for a great question, Jared.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4


14 days ago
Jared T
Jared T
Posts: 4
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant wrote:

A respected colleague and fellow consultant, Debbie Magoulick, has added this insight: if you are asking whether the responsive teaching would work in teaching any language, I think the thinking and processing to understand written text is the same in any language. The differences would be in the early literacy concepts that depend on directional movement since some written text goes in different directions or word boundaries since some languages write in characters that represent ideas rather than words alone, or symbol-sound correspondence that differs. But the searching, monitoring, solving, correcting, predicting, ... should still be the thinking or processing done in any language. Marie Clay studied processing around the world to develop her theory of reading as a complex process.”

Thank you for a great question, Jared.


Thanks for this perspective. I was specifically interested to know if there was any research into this because L2 learning is much different than L1 learning. One of the common things to do with any L2 education is to take to take L1 methods and apply them to L2 education. One of the big differences between L1 and L2 education is this: L1 learners already speak the language and the primary focus of the education is on literacy whereas with L2 learners they are both learning to speak AND read the language at the same time. This difference is even more apparent with literacy because the L1 learner is learning to read words they already know how to speak and are familiar with however the L2 learner may learn to read a word but still be unsure of it's meaning or how to use it.

In reality, L1 and L2 education is very different although it is quite tempting to view them as the same or very similar. The difference is even more pronounced with Chinese characters which are each unique morphemes with pronunciation that must be memorized and does not inherently have phonetic pronunciation embedded inside the character. Basically, Chinese characters can't be sounded out. You either know it or you don't, so traditional phonics type of systems used to figure out how to sound out a word don't work in Chinese. If it is accompanied by pinyin, which is a romanized phonetic pronunciation using the alphabet, that aids in the pronunciation but readers who lean too heavily on that will never truly learn to read characters and the Chinese language.

So sorry for that long winded description, but perhaps that gives a bit more context to my frame of reference and asking if there has been any research on the applicability of the F&P frame work towards learning a second language. It would seem to me that if someone did, then it would basically be applying a L1 learning method to L2 education. Yes, the language can be learned in that way, but there will likely be certain changes or adjustments that would make it better and more appropriate for L2 learners. However, I have a lot of respect for what F&P has done to further literacy education in the US and other countries. I just wanted to see if there was any research in this area for L2 education.

Thanks guys!
edited by Jared T on 4/10/2019
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Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant
Posts: 702


13 days ago
Jared T wrote:
Helenann Steensen, Fountas & Pinnell Consultant wrote:

A respected colleague and fellow consultant, Debbie Magoulick, has added this insight: if you are asking whether the responsive teaching would work in teaching any language, I think the thinking and processing to understand written text is the same in any language. The differences would be in the early literacy concepts that depend on directional movement since some written text goes in different directions or word boundaries since some languages write in characters that represent ideas rather than words alone, or symbol-sound correspondence that differs. But the searching, monitoring, solving, correcting, predicting, ... should still be the thinking or processing done in any language. Marie Clay studied processing around the world to develop her theory of reading as a complex process.”

Thank you for a great question, Jared.


Thanks for this perspective. I was specifically interested to know if there was any research into this because L2 learning is much different than L1 learning. One of the common things to do with any L2 education is to take to take L1 methods and apply them to L2 education. One of the big differences between L1 and L2 education is this: L1 learners already speak the language and the primary focus of the education is on literacy whereas with L2 learners they are both learning to speak AND read the language at the same time. This difference is even more apparent with literacy because the L1 learner is learning to read words they already know how to speak and are familiar with however the L2 learner may learn to read a word but still be unsure of it's meaning or how to use it.

In reality, L1 and L2 education is very different although it is quite tempting to view them as the same or very similar. The difference is even more pronounced with Chinese characters which are each unique morphemes with pronunciation that must be memorized and does not inherently have phonetic pronunciation embedded inside the character. Basically, Chinese characters can't be sounded out. You either know it or you don't, so traditional phonics type of systems used to figure out how to sound out a word don't work in Chinese. If it is accompanied by pinyin, which is a romanized phonetic pronunciation using the alphabet, that aids in the pronunciation but readers who lean too heavily on that will never truly learn to read characters and the Chinese language.

So sorry for that long winded description, but perhaps that gives a bit more context to my frame of reference and asking if there has been any research on the applicability of the F&P frame work towards learning a second language. It would seem to me that if someone did, then it would basically be applying a L1 learning method to L2 education. Yes, the language can be learned in that way, but there will likely be certain changes or adjustments that would make it better and more appropriate for L2 learners. However, I have a lot of respect for what F&P has done to further literacy education in the US and other countries. I just wanted to see if there was any research in this area for L2 education.

Thanks guys!
edited by Jared T on 4/10/2019


Thank you for your detailed explanation! I believe it does indeed add perspective to not only your question but the instruction required. Checking on the earlier research that I had sited, there is no distinction between the ELL population being L1 or L2. Therefore, as you suggested the results most likely include both populations considering the areas of the US that were involved in the study. Although the results are excellent, it does not provide the information you are specifically looking for. Teaching children to read is a challenge but adding in the language learning as well definitely increases the challenge. The final results ... children learning to read and loving to read are why we teach!

For teachers using any of the systems, as I stated earlier, there are always suggested ways of addressing needs of ELL students. In addition, in all materials, F&P strongly advise that teachers must adjust the lesson to accommodate the needs of all students.... not see a lesson as ‘one size fits all’. Just as you stated, there always need to be adjustments made to make it more appropriate for each individual learner.

Thank you for your patience in explaining your question and my attempt to respond. We are grateful that you find the F&P materials so valuable. It is an honor to serve teachers and students.

--
Helenann Steensen, Official Fountas & Pinnell Consultant, Heinemann
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